While I don't see the current AZ Republic as you seem to, I confess to being somewhat ignorant about early, pre-statehood Arizona (pre-1912), and certainly don't know much about what the papers were like then. Of course both the Russian Revolution came later (1917) and the CCP won in 1949, but there was a Left before either. Can you point me to some relevant material about the pre-statehood journalism here? Thanks.
As the great Inigo Montoya said, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Y'all would claim that people who buy the wrong donuts are communists.
BTW the ESA vouchers allow students to attend any school, private, public and public charter, as well as alternatives such as home schooling. Imagine that, kids not longer sentenced to do time in a failing school just because of the zip code they live in. There is a reason this trend started in AZ, is spreading across the nation like wildfire.
Point taken although I have to note that it's up to the receiving school to determine they have capacity - and that traditional public schools and educators fought open enrollment as fiercely as they do vouchers.. No one likes competition, i know I didnt when i owned a business. But it works and in this modern era there is no excuse for public schools to be granted one, especially given the track record on student performance. We have to do better for our kids.
There are 54,000 students in private schools in AZ. If "most" of the 48,000 increase in universal vouchers went to private school students I think it is safe to say that any future increase in universal vouchers will be kids currently attending traditional K12. Each child in a traditional school who decides to move to an ESA will actually SAVE the state money (also the case when kids move to public charters), not to mention local taxpayers. Our schools are failing our students. It is hardly equitable or fair for kids to be forced to attend a failing public school simply because of the zip code they reside in. Vouchers are popular for a reason.
I understand that the "saving" claim is based on the funding for charter schools, not district schools. Most kids are in district schools. But I defer to others who might have more specific data on this.
Thanks. Just read the article. Extracting the figures from the article, if you just look at district schools (excluding charters), the basic voucher for elementary and middle schools students is $424 more per student than the state aid to district schools; and it says the vouchers for high schoolers are about $540 more than the state provides to public schools. The author's source is the Arizona Association of School Business Officials.
Yeah. Unfortunately he ignores that traditional public schools have local taxing and bonding authority and receive Title I money from the federal government. Public schools in Arizona on average have about $13,000 per student. More than full time tuition at ASU. Besides inputs are inputs. Why do we allow the folks who run our schools to keep their focus on inputs? Any other organization focusses on outputs. What you actually accomplish with the inputs. No one cares how much Apple spends on design and production of iphones or how much Tesla spends developing a new car.. They only care how the products perform to meet their needs.
Totally. We’re gonna run out of private/homeschool kids someday and then the overall cost will basically flatline. I don’t think it’s an actual savings (depends on a lot of factors) but it’s essentially a wash.
Mike, were you aware that Arizona has mandated open enrolment for many, many years? Zip codes do not dictate where a child can attend school. As long as the school has capacity, you can enrol your child into ANY traditional public school. My children attended schools wherein up to 50% of the student body lived OUTSIDE the school boundaries. One family drove up to Scottsdale from Casa Grande to bring their children to school. While those students do not receive free bussing if they live outside the boundary, charter and private schools do not offer free transportation, either.
Great. Another school choice option. But what is the school doesn't have capacity? Isn't it better that all kids, regardless of their economic situation have the same kind of choices as, say, the Obama or Bush girls? I think that's a good thing and that teal competition makes everyone better. If you don't believe competition works, imagine a world where a government bureaucrat somewhere sits down and decides who can buy what kind of smart phone and decides that people can only buy iphones. How much incentive does Apple have to innovate and make their product better? Without competition, not much. Why is it that the model for public education? That model has produced what we have today. A system which costs more per pupil than a years tuition at ASU and is the highest per capita in the developed world, but whose student achievement is middling at best. The days of "just give us a bit more money and we will do better" are over. We must try news things and be innovative. Arizona has been a trendsetter in this regard. So far vouchers have a alow uptake, but as people see opportunities that will change. Good day.
I'm waiting for the AZGOP to go ballistic when a private school, funded through ESA, starts offering its students an antifascism course taught by a drag queen.
Question: the numbers in the table add up to 50,073 students, but the EDAs are going to over 60,000. Any other category that is not in the table? (I thought I put in this comment earlier but I don't see it so I'll try to post it again).
Shawnna Bolick and her familiars assure the AZ GOP freak show will have new (old) ways to create discord among the party faithful.
The CCP propaganda in the Arizona Republic and other Gannett publications won't do much to change these publications. Just more of the same.
They've always been pretty pro-communist, since territorial days, even!
Agreed, more of the same. The *New Same*, or, "Hasn't it always been this way?"
While I don't see the current AZ Republic as you seem to, I confess to being somewhat ignorant about early, pre-statehood Arizona (pre-1912), and certainly don't know much about what the papers were like then. Of course both the Russian Revolution came later (1917) and the CCP won in 1949, but there was a Left before either. Can you point me to some relevant material about the pre-statehood journalism here? Thanks.
As the great Inigo Montoya said, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Y'all would claim that people who buy the wrong donuts are communists.
BTW the ESA vouchers allow students to attend any school, private, public and public charter, as well as alternatives such as home schooling. Imagine that, kids not longer sentenced to do time in a failing school just because of the zip code they live in. There is a reason this trend started in AZ, is spreading across the nation like wildfire.
Well we already have open enrollment so nobody is locked in a school bc of their zip.
Point taken although I have to note that it's up to the receiving school to determine they have capacity - and that traditional public schools and educators fought open enrollment as fiercely as they do vouchers.. No one likes competition, i know I didnt when i owned a business. But it works and in this modern era there is no excuse for public schools to be granted one, especially given the track record on student performance. We have to do better for our kids.
There are 54,000 students in private schools in AZ. If "most" of the 48,000 increase in universal vouchers went to private school students I think it is safe to say that any future increase in universal vouchers will be kids currently attending traditional K12. Each child in a traditional school who decides to move to an ESA will actually SAVE the state money (also the case when kids move to public charters), not to mention local taxpayers. Our schools are failing our students. It is hardly equitable or fair for kids to be forced to attend a failing public school simply because of the zip code they reside in. Vouchers are popular for a reason.
I understand that the "saving" claim is based on the funding for charter schools, not district schools. Most kids are in district schools. But I defer to others who might have more specific data on this.
State and local taxpayers spend about $12,000 for each student each year (ironically more than full time tuition at ASU). ESA vouchers are $7,000.
Doesn't that include charters? And what is the typical cost of a private school? If the 7000 doesn't fully cover that it isn't the number to use.
Howie had a good piece recently that broke down the “savings” argument. It might be this but I cant log into the star on my phone ugh
https://tucson.com/news/local/subscriber/arizona-taxpayers-cost-for-school-vouchers-leaps-to-900m-a-year/article_8315fe9e-ffcb-11ed-8a30-1fba57c87105.html#tracking-source=home-top-story
Thanks. Just read the article. Extracting the figures from the article, if you just look at district schools (excluding charters), the basic voucher for elementary and middle schools students is $424 more per student than the state aid to district schools; and it says the vouchers for high schoolers are about $540 more than the state provides to public schools. The author's source is the Arizona Association of School Business Officials.
Yeah. Unfortunately he ignores that traditional public schools have local taxing and bonding authority and receive Title I money from the federal government. Public schools in Arizona on average have about $13,000 per student. More than full time tuition at ASU. Besides inputs are inputs. Why do we allow the folks who run our schools to keep their focus on inputs? Any other organization focusses on outputs. What you actually accomplish with the inputs. No one cares how much Apple spends on design and production of iphones or how much Tesla spends developing a new car.. They only care how the products perform to meet their needs.
Totally. We’re gonna run out of private/homeschool kids someday and then the overall cost will basically flatline. I don’t think it’s an actual savings (depends on a lot of factors) but it’s essentially a wash.
Mike, were you aware that Arizona has mandated open enrolment for many, many years? Zip codes do not dictate where a child can attend school. As long as the school has capacity, you can enrol your child into ANY traditional public school. My children attended schools wherein up to 50% of the student body lived OUTSIDE the school boundaries. One family drove up to Scottsdale from Casa Grande to bring their children to school. While those students do not receive free bussing if they live outside the boundary, charter and private schools do not offer free transportation, either.
Great. Another school choice option. But what is the school doesn't have capacity? Isn't it better that all kids, regardless of their economic situation have the same kind of choices as, say, the Obama or Bush girls? I think that's a good thing and that teal competition makes everyone better. If you don't believe competition works, imagine a world where a government bureaucrat somewhere sits down and decides who can buy what kind of smart phone and decides that people can only buy iphones. How much incentive does Apple have to innovate and make their product better? Without competition, not much. Why is it that the model for public education? That model has produced what we have today. A system which costs more per pupil than a years tuition at ASU and is the highest per capita in the developed world, but whose student achievement is middling at best. The days of "just give us a bit more money and we will do better" are over. We must try news things and be innovative. Arizona has been a trendsetter in this regard. So far vouchers have a alow uptake, but as people see opportunities that will change. Good day.
I'm waiting for the AZGOP to go ballistic when a private school, funded through ESA, starts offering its students an antifascism course taught by a drag queen.
Question: the numbers in the table add up to 50,073 students, but the EDAs are going to over 60,000. Any other category that is not in the table? (I thought I put in this comment earlier but I don't see it so I'll try to post it again).
Ah that table is pulled from a quarterly report so it’s a little out of date
Got it. So, no mystery category, just a moving target. Thanks.
The wealthy are just trying to get back a little ROI because buying politicians can be expensive.